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Transcript – Diet & Supplement Q&A Smackdown
Shawn: Hello BioTrust Nation. We are back with another episode. I’m really excited to be here with my co-host and amazing friend, Tim Skwiat.
Tim: What up!
Shawn: [laughs] And this is Shawn Wells. And we are going to do a nutrition diet supplement smackdown Q&A episode, brought to you by you, the listener. But before we get into all these amazing questions that will spur great conversation from me and Tim, we do have a review.
Tim: Yes, and today’s 5-star review on iTunes is brought to you by BarbT, who says, “Love this podcast. It’s my go-to for fitness and nutrition advice.” Thank you so much, Barb. And if you email us at [email protected], we will send you a free BioTrust product of your choice. And we greatly appreciate you taking the time to leave this review. It means a lot to us, and it’s incredibly humbling to know that we have become your go-to for fitness and nutrition advice. That that means a lot to us. These reviews mean a lot to the show. Also help getting the word out there on iTunes. I think they have a nice little algorithm where reviews make a difference.
Shawn: Yeah, so incredibly thankful to everyone that does that, and a small token of our appreciation is to send a free product to someone that does a review. But please, as Tim said, it’s good for us. It helps us come into the show feeling strong that we’re reaching people. But this is a community thing and we need your help and we want to touch lives, we want to change lives, and we want you to be a part of that, and we want to be a part of that. So anyone that you can share this to or give us a review, any way that you can help us, giving us advice, asking us questions. Just any way you can be involved, we’re appreciative of it. We have gratitude for you.
We are going to do a Q&A smackdown. So, each of these people that ask a question that we’re going to ask, will get a free product. And they are members of the BioTrust VIP Facebook group, which is free to join and is filled with amazing people that are there to support you and help you. And it’s BioTrust.com/VIP. And if you want the full transcript notes of the show, then you can go to BioTrustRadio.com and check us out there, where we have all the links, the transcripts, everything.
So, getting into the first one by Russell Gregg. “Everybody everywhere [this seems a little hyperbolic to begin with] [laughs] seems to be confused about vitamins and supplements. Which ones do you recommend and which ones, with a couple of examples, should we stay away from because they do nothing or quickly leave the body.” The quickly leave the body thing sounds like—speaking of hyperbolic—just stuff from media that talks about supplements being trash and you pee them out or you poop them out, and like whole tablets are in your poop.
Shawn: I forget what book that was, but someone was out there was putting that message out there that you don’t even absorb them and all this stuff. I think that’s rarely the case. Typically, these ingredients are metabolized by the liver. They’re processed in your body and you do utilize them to whatever degree. There are varying ingredients and compounds that have different strengths, different potencies in your body. Not only based on the dose that you get, but the concentration of the active. And that’s important. So, it’s not just about 300 milligrams or 500 milligrams; it’s also about it being 3% of the active versus 5% of the active, let’s say. That can have a huge difference. So, you want to look at 1. Full disclosure—very important. Proprietary blends, blah. Full disclosure. You need to know the form; the dose, meaning the level the amount; and you want to know the strength of the active. It should be standardized to something if it’s an herb.
If it’s a pure compound, then it’s standardized to whatever it is. It’s a 100%, essentially, of whatever it is. Say leucine, essentially it’s 98, 99%, 100% leucine. And if it’s an herb, let’s say it’s ginseng, then it needs to be standardized to Ginsenoside A. Then you know, okay, it’s been sent to a lab. This herb is consistent into each time it’s supplied to this company. When they make the product, it’s going to be consistent experience. So, that’s what standardized means. It’s going to be a consistent experience for an active. That’s important. That active has been shown in studies to elicit some response. Let’s say Ginsenoside A has been studied to help with your immune system, help with cognitive function, and vasodilation, meaning blood flow. So, then you know to expect that degree of those responses every time you take it.
So, that’s something to just look at when you’re looking at supplements. I think it’s important. That’s a great foundation to have to judge supplements. I run from proprietary blends where it’s 10 ingredients and 2,000 milligrams and you don’t know what the dose is of any of the ingredients. And when they’re not standardized to anything, that’s frustrating as well. It just says “ginseng.” Okay is it the root? Because the root is where the benefit is. But it could be the whole plant because that’s obviously cheaper. It could be the leaf, which is cheaper. It could have heavy metals in it. It could be just garbage.
So, if they’re not taking the time to show you the dose, list the standardization, talk about the science and have a formula that has a couple ingredients in it. Not too many ingredients, but let’s say anywhere from one to six, I think, is reasonable, like in a capsule form where you can have a thought process between mechanisms of action for each ingredient. Like okay this product is for joint health, for example our Joint 33X. We have three different mechanisms of action that we put in those three ingredients, that all made sense, that have a synergy together in that formula. Or is it just three ingredients that happen to all be for joints, and they’re just like, “Let me throw those three in there because people have heard of those.” Okay, that’s kind of weak sauce. You need to have ingredients that are complementary that there’s rationale behind a formulation, and that’s the difference between someone who’s the CFO formulating [chuckles] and someone who’s a formulator formulating.
So, those are some things I would look for before we even get into what supplements to choose. But do you have any other ones, Tim.
Tim: Yeah, those are great insights from the world’s greatest formulator. And kind of to Russell’s point is that you can see why people are confused.
Shawn: Totally. It’s meant to be.
Shawn: Exactly. I think when it comes to choosing supplements, I think we have to remember what’s the purpose of a supplement. It’s actually complimentary to diets and goals and things that. From a coaching standpoint, what I would prefer to do with anyone who’s looking for supplements is to go through a supplement and supplement needs and goals analysis. And so, what I mean by that is you really have two buckets of supplements. On one hand you have supplements that provide essential nutrients, like things that we need to get through diet, meaning either through food or supplement. And examples would be your vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, essential amino acids. And then you have more specialty supplements or that contain non-essential nutrients. So, those would be your herbs.
You don’t necessarily need ginseng to survive, but it could be very helpful if you were interested in brain health. So, if you were interested in joint health, a joint supplement might be beneficial. So, I think that would be where I would start is just to kind of line up with what are your goals what do you needs. And along those lines, there’s some things that probably most people would benefit from such as a multivitamin, which basically is a nutrition insurance policy for most people. Because even the people that are probably pretty diligent about their nutritional intake are probably not getting an optimal amount of micronutrient, a vitamin or mineral here or there. And if what you did which one it is, then it may be best to supplement with that specific micronutrient. But if you don’t know and you’re just looking for a good insurance policy, then a multivitamin is probably your best bet.
But a lot of people aren’t getting enough vitamin D, and I’m not sure that a vitamin D supplement provides all the same benefits as sunshine, but a vitamin D supplement is probably a pretty foundational supplement for most people. Omega-3 fatty acids, pretty foundational for most people. Vitamin K, magnesium, and these types of things are also usually pretty commonly under-consumed.
It brings us to a whole another point though, like what’s optimal. I don’t know. Because when you look at the daily references, I think they come from animal studies and they multiply whatever happens in those studies by a factor to get what the minimal intake is for a human. But is that optimal or do we actually need to get that every single day? These are whole other discussions.
Shawn: Yeah, I was going to recommend those core supplements as well. And I can recommend the ones that that BioTrust makes, certainly, because Tim and I have had a hand in formulating them, so I will certainly make some recommendations there. But there are other good supplements out there from good companies, like AOR, Nordic Naturals, and Thorn. Thorn is a great one, Doctor’s Best, Carlson’s, Barleans, Now Foods, Gero—those are some ones that I would put towards the top of my list when we’re not looking at BioTrust.
We like to talk about our products, but we don’t to be pushy about that either. Again, I think we’ve taken the time to test them and put some thought into the ingredients and not only tested the finished product but tested each of the raw materials to make sure everything’s there. And then things that we don’t want are not there, like heavy metals or banned substances, or things that. So, we’re pretty proud of the products there.
So, the core ones I’d recommend is a multi, like Tim said. And we have the Ageless Core multi. From there I would recommend a probiotic for most people. For gut health we have Pro X 10. And we have our krill, Omega Krill 5x and that’s high in DHA, which I would recommend that you get a high DHA fish oil.
Tim: It’s also IFOS, five-star rated. IFOS is the top third-party testing for fish oils, so that’s a big one.
Shawn: That is HUGE. And then also kind of high on my list are our proteins.
Shawn: Including collagen and then like our hydrolyzed whey protein isolate. So, I would recommend the Ageless Multi-Collagen because it has five types of collagen that you just really don’t get in the diet anymore. And I almost think of it a multi, that’s why we called it multi-collagen.
Shawn: And then, our Platinum 1 is a hydrolyzed whey isolate and it’s super clean, super pure, great tasting. And a lot of people—I won’t say everyone. I mean, you certainly can get protein in your diet, but it’s just a really good source. A high leucine source, which means it’s anabolic, it’s good for muscle retention, muscle recovery. So, those are some ones that I would recommend. And then as Tim said, once we know your needs, then we can recommend other things like a joint product, anti-aging product, blood sugar management product, and all kinds of things including weight management products. I mean, there’s a there’s a number of things that we could look at. And I take a host of these products because I’m just an aging person and I want to protect myself and give myself the best I can have, just to live a happy and healthy life. There’s more I’d recommend, but I think that’s a good core place to start.
Tim: Yeah. The funny thing is we didn’t talk about that at all before answering that question, but if you ask me my foundational supplements, I would have said the same.
Tim: Basically, what you did.
Shawn: That’s awesome.
Tim: I actually recently wrote an article on the difference between whey and collagen protein that we’ll link in the show notes, because not all protein is the same.
Shawn: Great. Right. Phenomenal. Yeah, totally amazing point. And that is a point of confusion, so that’s a really cool topic to cover. And also, we should link the collagen episode where we did some of that as well.
Shawn: But yes, we have a podcast that does a deep dive into collagen. If you guys want to know more about it, I’d recommend you listen to it because it’s a super-amazing nutrient that most of us are very deficient in.
So, the next question from Louise Coomer, “Confused by all the supplements offered. Wondering for those of us on a limited income, which are the best to concentrate on.” This kind of is similar to what we covered. I mean, again, we need to know your needs. But if you’re not on some of the other foundational products from let’s say other companies—the quality companies, at least—then that’s probably where I’d start. If I was going to prioritize them, I would start with the multi first, our Ageless Core Multi. As Tim said, that’s just nutrient insurance. Then from there I would go to—this is tough—probably the fish oil because it’s anti-inflammatory.
DHA is so protective to the brain. And any insults we have to our brain—insults means just damage to the brain, which can happen in a variety of ways. Not just traumatic brain injury where we hit something or have violent whiplash, but it can even just be stress or emotional trauma can cause damage to the brain. Loneliness and depression can cause a shrinking of the brain, actually, and actually makes you more prone therefore to the brain getting damaged within the skull casing because it’s smaller. And that’s an important reason to hydrate for your brain too, so that it’s encased in more fluid, and therefore has more protection.
So that’s probably my top two. And then from there, I would go to the collagen because it’s a third of the protein in our bodies. And it’s not just we tend to think of joints and then skin, but it’s important for bone, for gut health, or hair, skin, nails. It’s the glue, literally, in your body and it’s so critical. I think you’ll notice a dramatic change in many aspects of your health. And then the Pro-X10 for your gut health, the probiotic and prebiotic. That would be my list.
And then I’d make sure to eat fermented foods, like kombucha, pickles, sauerkraut, and things like that. And certainly get in some good vinegars. I’m a huge fan of apple cider vinegar with the Mother, like from Braggs. The Mother is the acetic bacteria that’s at the bottom. And get healthy oils in, like we talked about. Eat fatty fish, have olive oil. Try not to cook with the olive oil, at least certainly at high heat. I like putting the olive oil on the meal after, or having salads with it because it can be potentially oxidized, especially if you get the good stuff, like the extra-virgin olive oil. But I’m a big fan of actually using real butter or coconut oil. It’s okay to have saturated fats. And those are actually good for the high heat cooking. So, I like getting those in.
There’s great data, even though some people are anti‑dairy. Certainly if you have allergies, that’s one thing, but I think there’s a lot of great data on full fat dairy, like cheeses, milks, heavy cream. Try and go organic. But getting in the non-gmo organic vegetables and fruits, I to say vegetables and fruits instead of fruits and vegetables, because I think people should lean more heavily on the vegetables. And getting quality meat in your diet, if you’re not a vegan. Again, from good sources. Those are those are some of the things that I would do.
Certainly hydrate well. I think that’s underappreciated and can be a pretty profound impact on your health. I think you’ll see your skin brighten and your immune system improve, and your joints feel better, and your sleep improve, and your focus improve, and your appetite decrease, and all those kinds of things, by hydrating well.
Tim: Yep, that pretty much seals the deal folks.
Tim: That was a really solid response, Shawn, and it really ties into the next question from Rebecca Mendez, who says, “I’m on a limited income and would to know what type of stuff to buy to stay healthy, as far as food goes. The money is really tight. Do you have any fast, simple recipes?” And I think you really set the stage there with the foods to emphasize on.
Shawn: So, I have a question for you along these lines. How important is organic/non-GMO, because that can jack up the cost anywhere from, let’s say, 30 to 100%.
Tim: Can I take a pass.
Tim: It’s just going to stir so many feathers, but I think that’s what we’re here for.
Shawn: Stir the pot. Ruffle the feathers.
Tim: I’m going to stir the feathers.
Shawn: And ruffle the pot. [laughs]
Tim: I’m really going to ruffle the pot here.
Tim: I’m the king of these silly phrases. Such a dad joke. I’m going to come back to that. Well, Rebecca, as far as the fast, simple recipes, head over to our blog. Cristina does a tremendous job with recipes that are both awesome-tasting and fast. And not only that, but she does a great job of being budget‑conscious with those recipes.
The organic discussion is challenging because there’s many facets to it. People tend to think that organic is inherently healthy, but if you’re buying an Oreo cookie. If there’s an organic Oreo cookie, there’s really no difference. The reason I make such an extreme example is because when you look at studies, consumer studies, people think that there’s a halo around organic, meaning that it’s healthier regardless of what the food is.
Tim: Organic white bread is the same as white bread in terms of the physiological response. Is it really healthier? There are certain instances, I mean if we’re just looking at pesticide residues, we could look to something the Dirty Dozen or the Clean 15 to look at pesticide residues on fruits and vegetables. Where you see that certain conventional certain conventional vegetables and fruits, to say it in the order that you prefer, [chuckles] have a much higher pesticide residue. And some have very low pesticide residue. And in that case, buying organic, which wouldn’t necessarily be worth the cost from that standpoint. Just from a pesticide residue standpoint, but are there other considerations to buying organic? Do you want to support the organic farming industry? And there’s these ethical concerns. Do you want to support local types of businesses maybe? There’s just many layers to the conversation.
When we look at dairy, for instance, there’s some pretty good data there that says that organic—
Shawn: Which avoids the antibiotics and the rBGH, rBST, the hormones in your milk and all that stuff.
Tim: Right. And the implication there is that those animals are also probably treated better.
Shawn: Treated better. Yeah. Less cruelty.
Tim: And probably more likely to be pasture-raised. And along those lines-we talked about this before.
Shawn: The feed is different.
Tim: What a cow eats influences the makeup of their milk and their meat. So, it’s not just what you eat. It’s not just you are what you eat, it’s you are what you ate-ate, you know, basically. And what I mean by that is, for instance, dairy that comes from a cow, from grass-fed cows is going to be higher in omega-3 fatty acids and relatively lower in omega-6 fatty acids. Omega-6 fatty acids, like omega-3 fatty acids, are essential, meaning that we need to get them in our diet. But most people consume significantly more. Not because they’re consuming too many nuts or seeds, which also tend to be high in omega-6, but they tend to consume processed foods, which are very high in these be heavily processed oils; soybean oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and things like that.
Shawn: And they tend to be pro-inflammatory, when skewed in ratio.
Tim: Exactly. And so, consuming these organic dairy and organic meat helps push that ratio back into a healthy omega-3 to omega-6 area. And so that would be a place to choose that.
Shawn: So, one thing I’ve read is that someone made this recommendation that if you’re on a budget and things are really tight, just go with the healthy whole food.
Shawn: And if you can afford organic, cool. And the places where they said maybe it makes more sense to spend on organic are the ones where you eat the outside of the fruit or vegetable.
Shawn: To your point about pesticides and herbicides, and other chemicals and things that may get on it, or may be around that farming process, or the processing of the fruit or vegetable. So, if it’s something that you’re going to eat intact, then maybe that’s one place where you might look to spend more on organic. And I agree with you, I think it’s maybe more impactful on the meat and dairy, even though we hear about the fruits and vegetables more. But I would look to go whole food. I think whole food is more important. I’m not discounting organic. I think it’s certainly a plus in the checklist.
Shawn: And even when it comes to Oreos, I guess if I was to pick one or the other.
Shawn: I’ll tell you, if money’s no object, then sure. If you’re going to have one or the other, than have the organic one. I don’t know that it’s that impactful, but maybe 0.01% better.
Shawn: Okay. [laughs] If you ever just have a choice and money’s no object, sure go the organic thing. But whole food is way more impactful, I believe. If we were to take someone on an organic, diet top-to-bottom, versus a non-organic diet, and they were both processed foods, I don’t think you’d see a whole lot of difference. If we were to take someone on a non-organic processed food diet and a non-organic whole food diet—if people are following me here—I think you’d see a massive impact.
I think the biggest impact is certainly—and I’ve always said this—let’s all agree, let’s start with whole food. Whenever we talk about, “What’s the right diet? What should I be eating?” and blah-blah-blah, like keto, Mediterranean, this and that. Let’s all just say whole food is where we should all start. That’s where we’ve been for millions of years as creatures on this planet until this new phenomenon of ultra-processed food that has GMOs or antibiotics and blah-blah-blah, and it’s high glycemic this and that and synthetic compounds and these bliss point things that make you overeat and blow your palate into smithereens. And you’re like, “Oh my god, I gotta eat more of this thing.” So, if I was to recommend something, start with whole foods. Shop around and look at all these. See what’s on sale. If you’re on a budget, you’re going to have to go to three or four stores. Fact, just fact. If you’re really on a budget and you want to eat healthy, then you’re going to have to go to multiple stores. But now you’re saying, I’m on a budget so I’m just going to buy these.
What’s typically on sale? You know, so it has coupons at least, is the processed food. Why? Because these companies are pushing you to buy that crap instead of buying whole food at the grocery store. They have massive distribution. They don’t want you to just go to your local store and buy chicken and lettuce and whatever. They want you to buy their Pop-Tarts and Stouffer’s meals and whatever. Cook it yourself. And if you cook it yourself, it’s going to be way healthier. Start with whole food and cook it yourself. When you cook it yourself, you know what’s going into it. You bought the things, you took the time to cook it right. You’re adding things to it that you’re aware of and are healthy and make sense, in proportions that make sense. And you can proportion out the amount of food as makes sense, instead of feeling you have to eat every bit of whatever’s there in this pre-proportioned thing. So, I think there’s a lot of benefit to cooking the things yourself.
Now, if you have to take a Sunday and meal prep for the week. You don’t have to necessarily meal prep everything, but maybe you initially prep stuff. Get it halfway done, where you cut up some things, you marinate, you get things ready to be easily cooked that evening that you want them so you can make it fresh, if that’s what you want to do. But there’s ways to take healthy, whole food, fresh, and have a convenient meal. It’s not that hard. And we have those recipes, I believe, on the site that do that, right?
Tim: Yeah, we do. I mean, there’s a lot of times that you can make a dinner for one day that turns into lunch for the next day and things like that. Instead of looking at just getting chicken breasts all the time, look at getting a whole chicken.
Tim: Cook a whole chicken. Not only is it going to be cheaper, it’s arguably healthier because you’re getting the collagen.
Shawn: The collagen. And then you can do a bone broth, right?
Tim: Right. Or do a stock, like in a soup, and things like that.
Shawn: Use the skin, use the bones. Yes, exactly.
Tim: So, just looking at different things like that. And I love that you made that point about the biggest step, the most important step that you can make is just going to whole foods, regardless of whether or not it’s organic. I think we talked about it in the interview with Jeremy Hendon a while back.
Shawn: Yes. That was a good episode.
Tim: Not to downplay it, but it’s not nearly as powerful as moving to whole foods.
Shawn: I agree.
Tim: You summed that up perfectly, Shawn. Great job.
Shawn: Well, thank you, Tim. I’ll let you answer this one because you’re a fasting fiend.
Tim: I love this question.
Shawn: So, Kirsten Hill, “What is the most effective protocol for intermittent fasting, and what supplements do you use in conjunction with that?”
Tim: Great question, Kirsten. I love the popularity of the fasting craze, because of the research that’s coming out, and really giving people permission that it’s okay to not eat. You don’t have to eat three meals a day, don’t have to eat six meals a day. If you look back to the recommendations for three meals a day, I think it had to do with farming and agriculture. And then the six meals a day was metabolism‑boosting, and so everyone got afraid of skipping a meal. You can go a long time without eating, and it’s not going to affect your metabolism and you can be completely healthy. In fact, probably some longer fasts can be very healthy in terms of things that happen in the body. For instance, you’re going to get this increase in ketone bodies, and ketones can have various health benefits as a signal molecule.
But anyway, I just the discussion around fasting because it’s creating, like I said, scientific discussions, creating debates. We don’t know answers to everything, but we’re learning more about it and we’re learning that that’s an option. And we talked about this before, intermittent fasting is a hormetic stress on the body. It’s a slight enough stress that we can withstand it, but it’s also enough stress that it implements changes, physiological changes in the body, to be able to withstand that type of thing for a long period of time. And you can activate anti-aging pathways and anti‑inflammatory pathways. And so, it’s a tool in the toolbox. Doesn’t mean you have to do it every day.
And so along those lines, what is the most effective protocol? I don’t know. It’s probably one that you can implement consistently or on a timeline that you think is best. And it really depends maybe on what your goal is, as well. From a research standpoint, the protocol that probably has the most human evidence to back it up is an alternate day fasting or an every other day diet kind of thing where you basically eat however you want for a day—to a degree of, course. And then the next day you either fast completely or you limit your food intake considerably, say 500 calories is one they used in the study. That’s a tough one, though.
Shawn: Listen, I challenge you. You’re saying “within reason.” I challenge someone to eat as crazy as they want to eat for one day and then not eat the next day, and do that on a regular basis. I struggle to believe that in net-net, that you’re really going to do that much damage.
Shawn: Your appetite is going to drop, like you’re taking a whole day off. I believe you could go, yeah, maybe the first week or two you end up going a little crazy at the buffets and whatever but net-net over months, I don’t see it. You could you can go as crazy as you want to go, what they call ad libitum, as much as you want, and I think you’re actually going to be healthier.
Tim: And that’s what the research dictates, that there’s this concern that there would be a hyperphagia, I think it’s called.
Tim: Where you overcompensate for the lack of eating. And over time, it doesn’t happen, it just doesn’t happen the way that they would predict. The reason I love it, too, and we’ve mentioned this before, it’s that weight loss or weight management, which is something that a lot of people are interested in, is not a daily thing. It’s a cumulative thing over time. So, you don’t have to have a 500 or 1,000 calorie deficit every day, which is a whole other discussion in itself. You can have this day where you eat maintenance level and then the next day you eat a lot less, so it’s more cyclical. And there’s some pretty compelling evidence that cycling calories like that may have a more beneficial metabolic impact over the long-run.
Shawn: Yeah, I actually think gorging, like maybe eating what feels somewhat of a caloric surplus and literally throwing down for some multi many thousand calorie meal and then going quite a while without eating, there’s something compelling to that. That’s almost like, let’s call it high-intensity interval fasting.
Tim: Yeah, right. [laughs]
Shawn: [laughs] But just like interval training has similar benefit, it’s compelling to me. I’d to see more research and [chuckles] OMAD. That’s One Meal A Day was one term that Tim and I were recently introduced to. But I think there’s some compelling stuff there. One thing I am finding more and more compelling is only eating during the daylight hours, with your circadian rhythm. Your guy, Satchin Panda’s a big fan of that kind of research.
And I think there is something compelling to that, because again, evolutionarily, we wouldn’t have been able to hunt at night, we wouldn’t be eating at night. We’d be sleeping. We wouldn’t have artificial lights, we wouldn’t be messing up our circadian rhythm. And yes, does that mean that you eat in a much shorter window during the winter? Yep, it does. And we would eat more during the summer when hours are longer. But guess what? When the daylight’s longer, we’re more active. Interesting how that works, right? [chuckles]
Shawn: So I think there’s a lot of rationale there to only eat during daylight hours. Just eating during that window and not using a bunch of artificial light and messing up our circadian rhythm with all the other things that we do.
Shawn: Yeah, just a thought there. Just a couple final thoughts on this question. Obviously it’s something that I enjoy talking about. You talk about how compelling it was to have that cyclical nature of calories. One recent study that I thought was really interesting was something called the Matador Study. And basically they had two groups of people on a diet. One group just kind of did the traditional diet where they had—I can’t remember if it was a 500 or 1,000 calorie deficit every day for 16 weeks. The other group did the same thing for two weeks and then ate maintenance level for two weeks. And so they would diet and then not diet, diet and then not diet for two weeks. Basically having these planned diet breaks. So, their window, their time period was 32 weeks. It was much longer.
But anyway, that that group that had the cycling of calories ended up losing more fat mass and maintaining more fat loss over the long haul. And they did some tests for metabolism, changes in metabolism. Usually after you lose weight you expect to see a decrease in metabolism. Well, the group that did the cycling had less of a metabolic impact, so they maintained a higher metabolic rate at the end of the study, which was really interesting.
Now, the final thought on this one was that I mentioned what seems to be the most effective intermittent fasting protocol based on the research is the alternate day fasting because there’s just got the most robust data to support it. That being said, it’s not the easiest one to follow.
Tim: And the most commonly practiced type of intermittent fasting is time-restricted feeding, which would be condensing your feeding window.
Shawn: To 16 and 8 or 20 and 4.
Tim: And because it is becoming more popular, there is more research coming out on that. And there was just a pilot study recently released. It was actually I think from Satchin Panda’s lab, and they showed that just by condensing the feeding window about an hour and a half on both sides—so moving your first meal back two hours and then stopping eating two hours earlier. So, the participants’ feeding window ended up being about eight hours, which would be the 16 and 8 protocol, led to significant weight loss.
Shawn: Perfect. You’re the man, Tim. All right, so Candace Archer, “I have been seeing that you shouldn’t eat before working out. I have been eating dinner, then running on my elliptical and having a shake before bed. Should I be doing the workout before dinner?” Tim? [chuckles]
Tim: I mean, my thought on eating before exercise is that you don’t need to, you don’t have to.
Shawn: I agree.
Tim: Now, if it makes you feel like you are getting a better workout. We really need to know what your goal is here, Candace. Are you training to become the world champion elliptical trainer or are you just trying a weight management type of thing? And if it’s just the weight management kind of thing or overall health kind of thing, then it’s whatever works so that you get the best workout. But having said that, I think most people would probably do just fine without eating before exercise, and that eating can actually impair exercise performance in some people.
Shawn: I agree.
Tim: Now because Candace is talking about the timing here, that it’s dinnertime, I would say eat after exercise.
Tim: And the reason I say that is because most people are fairly inactive during the day, and from a circadian rhythm standpoint, insulin sensitivity, and our ability to process carbohydrate declines as the day goes on. But something that can basically reboot the system and allows us to process carbohydrates better is exercise. And so your body’s going to handle those carbohydrates better after exercise. So, that would be my suggestion in this particular case.
Shawn: Yeah, I would agree, unless you’re a boxer or football player, or someone who is just underweight and trying to put on weight, where you just have to basically have find places all day long to eat. And this is a real thing for some people, especially athletes. But typically, we end up talking to people on the weight management end of the spectrum where they’re trying to lose weight, if anything. And certainly it sounds that’s the case; being on the elliptical, etc. I would say that I agree with Tim, just skipping the food.
And certainly if you’re going to have anything and you feel you have to have something, I would get something that’s “light,” easy on the stomach, that doesn’t feel you need to digest it a lot or it sits in your gut like a rock. I know when I play volleyball, I have just really light stuff here and there, like some fruit or if I’m “cheating,” that’s Pop Tart or something like that, where it’s not something heavy. Normally I eat keto, so it’s very high fat and “heavy,” but when I’m really performing for multiple hours, I don’t like it. And I’m very used to just going in the morning, working out hard, fasted. So, that’s just become normal for me. And post-workout, I have a protein shake and then I have lunch. I found that my gains were better.
I used to do fasting after my workout sometimes, and then I used to also do a keto meal after my workout with bacon and eggs or something that. And I’ve just found that doing a quick protein shake after my workout, I had some better gains and recovery. But I still do my fasting, I still do keto. So that’s worked for me, so those are the things I would recommend.
Tim: Before we wrap up, I was just going to play devil’s advocate to my own self here. Because Candace, if you have a family and you eat dinner together as a family, I think that trumps anything else.
Shawn: Ooh. Great point.
Tim: I think, as a society, that we’re losing touch with that. And so, if dinner time is an opportunity for you to sit down with your husband or your loved ones, your kids, do it. It doesn’t matter. It’s not going to make a big deal in the long-run, before or after.
Tim: And I talked about carbohydrate metabolism. There’s studies that show that if you take a walk after you eat, it improves your glucose metabolism.
Shawn: Ten-minute walk, no big deal.
Tim: I could be wrong, I could be right, but I think either way you go, you’re going to be just fine.
Shawn: I agree. Man, that’s a phenomenal point, Tim. Huge point. And that’s that whole longevity thing that we’ve talked about like with Mediterranean. That could be more important than the diet. So, I mean, more important than what you eat, to your point Tim, is the company that you have, and doing fellowship over food that you’ve prepared together, and talking and having therapy with each other. Like “What did you do today? What was frustrating to you? Oh, what was your wins?”
Shawn: That’s incredible, and that’s what makes you live longer, it’s the relationships you have. Wow, awesome point, Tim.
Tim: We did it.
Shawn: I missed the forest through the trees there. That’s a great point. Tim crushed that one. But yeah, we did it, and thank you so much. We appreciate everyone for listening. Please continue to send us your questions on BioTrust.com/VIP and then you can get a free product that way. You’ll get a free product if you put up a review on iTunes and we read it. We’re deeply thankful for that, And certainly if you can subscribe to the podcast, share it with your friends or whatever. Again, we’re just thankful for you and we’re appreciating that you’re listening right now. Really, deeply, from the bottom of our hearts gratitude. Thank you so much.
Tim: Thanks, guys.